I Wish I Understood
First off, let me state that I am not trying to offend anyone's beliefs or make light of them, but this is something that has been bothering me greatly and I want to get it off my chest.
A few months ago I read a story about a family who lost seven children in a crash. A car plowed into the back of the car that was carrying them and killed the children, five of whom were siblings the other two were cousins of those siblings. Upon hearing that he had lost all seven of his grandchildren, William Scott, 62, died of a massive heart attack. here is the CNN link if you are interested in reading the story.http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/01/26/bus.crash/index.html
The part of the story I am concerned with and the part that has not left my mind since I read it is the very end. I read a couple of versions of this story, but they all include the minister spokesman comforting the family and speaking for the family. At times like this I am dumbfounded. I just can't understand the rationale and reasoning at a time like this to concieve that there is a loving god, but these people obviously still believe and that amazes me. What amazes me even more than this is that this god they believe in took eight members of their family and they can still love him. I myself am not burden with the belief in an almighty, but I would have to believe that if I was I would hate him with every fiber in my being for letting something like this happen.
A few weeks ago I watched an episode of Bullshit!, this episode was about endangered species. On this episode there was a woman with cerebral palsy, she is wheelchair bound. She is also homeless, in a way, she lives with a friend. The reason has to do with The Endangered Species Act, but I don't want to get into all that. The friend she lives with has no downstairs bathroom, so this poor woman has to be bathed in the yard with a waterhose. I really admired the woman because she seemed so upbeat about the bad hand that life has dealt her. But once again I have not been able to get this out of my head. She is a church goer and "thanks god because things could be worse." It would appear to me that this woman is living on the threshold of hell, I don't know in what way she thinks things could be worse. I guess she could become paralyzed and comepletely unable to move, but does that mean she is thanking god because she is scared of him and what he could do to her, that is sort of like an abused woman saying,"It was my fault Randy him me, I shouldn't have talked back that way."
I am really not going anywhere with these thoughts, they have just been bothering me alot and I wanted to see if writing them would get them out of my head. I don't pretend to understand religion. I know I used to be religious, but I guess I have forgotten the mindset that brings people to the conclusions they do. I also don't pretend to know everything, if there is a god he is obviously way smarter than Brandon Collinsworth, and maybe he/she/it will have a very good reason for all these things I don't understand, but I am not holding my breath. It would appear to me that if there is a god, he is a drunk wife beater and the most prolific and disturbing torturer/serial killer ever, but then again maybe he/she/it just doesn't care at all. I don't know and I am not trying to piss on anyone's religion, I just get confused and angry when I read these things.
People of faith are for the most part good, caring, kind people. The only thing I wonder is if they ever step back and examine their beliefs objectively and maybe let the thought into their mind to wonder if maybe they are wrong. Faith and logic seem to be opposing forces and that is a shame because I think both make a person strong and if they could work together, oh what a mighty person they could create.
posted by Brandon Michael Collinsworth at 8:08 AM
11 Comments:
"Faith and logic seem to be opposing forces and that is a shame because I think both make a person strong and if they could work together, oh what a mighty person they could create."
How ironic. I was going to blog about these two forces later today.
As for your article, I don't understand either. I was at a conference in Jackson, MS this weekend and a Calvinist told us that God will get great glory when his children, or elect ["vessels of mercy" (Romans 9.23)] look down into hell and see the nonelect ["vessels of wrath prepared for destruction" (Romans 9.22)] burning for eternity. Not to mention, in Deuteronomy 28 where God tells the Israelites that He will rejoice after he affects them with plagues and diseases and drives them to eat their young.
I just don't know.
"It ain't those parts of the Bible that I can't understand that bother me--it's the parts that I do understand."
--Mark Twain
From the beginning of time man has found reasons to hate God. I know that this is nothing new under the sun. I have been a Christian, which means that I, through the Holy Spirit that lives inside of me, uphold the teachings of Christ as utmost importance. I try to live by them and honor him by my actions. I know that people see us as weak, but a true Christian knows where his or her power comes from. We are aware that our home is not on earth and that the least will be greatest. Through God's strength we are strong. Our mindset is different, I agree. It is the mind of Christ. Our mindset is consumed by thoughts of our God and how we can show Him glory. I am speaking this way because I know so many that have this same mindset. I am commanded to give an account for my hope in Christ's Gospel. Romans 8:24-28 may help in explaining how His children can still love even in the midst of tragedy, "Rom 8:24 For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees?
Rom 8:25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.
Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.
Rom 8:27 And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
Rom 8:28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose."
What these verses are saying is that we have a hope that is not merely seen, but through patience we wait for it. We are confident that in our weakness the Spirit of God is helping us in ways we cannot understand. We also know that God is the only one who can judge the hearts, and by this we also know that through our love and the promise of His salvation all things are working together for our good, whether we see them now on earth or in heaven.
Brandon, our hearts as true Christians have purpose, direction, and security in knowing that God Loves us.
I encourage you to take your advice, step back, and always examine the reasons you choose such things concerning God. Jessica Lynn Hughes does not pretend to know all things about God, but I do know this: He is there, and He has revealed Himself to me. I also know that I have not been tested in certain ways that to me, would be ultimate, such as God choosing to test me by taking my children,husband, or family. I pray that I will never be tested in such a way, but if I am,I pray that I can stand in front of the world like the family you mentioned and honor God through such tragedy.
peace
"People of faith are for the most part good, caring, kind people. The only thing I wonder is if they ever step back and examine their beliefs objectively and maybe let the thought into their mind to wonder if maybe they are wrong."
Some do. Some don't. I would think that most don't examine their faith. If they do, I think many would settle for cheap answers--I know I have in the past. Have you read any essays from apologists defending God's role in suffering?If not, you should. It would help you to understand why some Christians feel the way that they do about God.
Christians believe the Bible. Although they believe it selectively at times, I would think that they, at least the ones in the article you cited, would apply the book of Job to their lives. They would agree with Job when he says, "Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him" (Job 13.15) I know that you believe that the Bible is "bad fiction," and I don't know if you've actually read enough of it to deem it "bad," but Job is definitely a cool story. The book of Job would suggest that someone close to this family in the article was being tested.
However, this is where the family could be selective in their Bible reading. Why not apply familial curses to their situation (Deut. 28.45-46)? Has this family considered that maybe the grandfather who died was the object of God's judgment? Maybe the reason that these kids were killed was to satisfy the judgment of God? In the Noahic flood, thousands and thousands of babies and kids would have been killed for the sake of judgment against the sin of the adults. I would doubt that the people close to the deceased would apply THESE verses to their family. I think if they would, they might would begin to question their faith. Some have. Don't get me wrong. Christians lose their faith all the time when bad stuff happens, but some press on and interpret their situation differently. I think that they may be choosing the happier Bible story--Job has a happy ending, he gets some more kids and stuff, and all is good. Others opt to go a different route, possibly thinking about all the kids and babies who died in the flood. Maybe they think about God's delight in the suffering of sinners from Deut. 28.63. But even here, some will ignore Deut. 28 and quote from Ezek. 33.10 where God says, "I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked."
Anyway, enough for now. I'll have more later.
Did I ever say the bible was "bad fiction"? I don't know maybe I did, I have by no means read all or even most of it, and I don't that I actually disagree with that description of what I have read. Certainly, I believe it to be fiction, I guess I would use the term "bad", but just for lack of a better word. I consider Shakespeare, Dickens, and to some extent Lord of the Rings "bad" fiction too, but only in the sense that it requires so much effort to read and understand it.
Anyway I understand your point and these perspectives, I guess in a way I have always understood them. After all I was raised in an unquestionly faithful house where everything was "god's will" and we were to be content in the fact that we can't understand his plan. I agree with that assessment to the extent that if their was an all knowing being there is no way we could understand the complexities of its mind. I also am aware that people pick and choose from the bible whatever they need to get them through what they are going through. People will always pick out what they want to hear. How else can we explain Klansmen, Jesse Jackson, Jerry Falwell, Adolf Hitler, the Shakers, and those wierd snake handlers all reading the same book and coming to different conclusions. And although I don't really understand their line of reasoning I do understand how it happens.
My heart brakes because you do not believe in Jesus, the One that loved you so much He died for you and me on the cross, taking our sins away. God is Love, Judgement, Great Physician, our Conforter, Readeamer, Grace, King of Kings, Lord of Lords, Mercy, Strength and I don't want to go a minute without Jesus, God's Son. I am honored to bow down before Him with Praise.
I have had heart break in my life and at times I did not know whatto do. I had 3 little children to raise by myself. I cried out to God to show me His way and get me through my broken heart and tears. Had it not been for Him I would not be here to talk to you today. When I had to go to work after 17 years of staying at home with no job skills, it was God that grace that gave me the job at the Prison. They had 4 positions available and 100 ladies waiting for interviews. I was one of the 4 chosen. It was not me and I did not know or have anyone pulling for me, but it was God's Grace. He took care of me and my 3 precious children, somthing I could not do on my own.
When my parents died the same week 2 day apart, I had to have God's strength to continue on, but He has never let me down. There has been many other trails in my life and there will be more to come, but I will stand fast on His Promise that He will never let me down and leave me alone.
Dreadful trials happens daily, but I do not blame my Creator, for it is sin. We were born into this world with a sinful nature and sin daily. That is why we need God's forgivness.
Yes, I believe in hell and that is were the unbeliver will spend eternity. Please don't let it be you as an unbeliver. My prayer is that you will fall on your knees andcry out to Jesus the precious One that died for you and me. If you ask He will hear.
You have a responsibility to bring up your precious little children to know about the Lord and lead your wife and family to walk the path of Jesus.
I will pray for you and pray that someday I can call you a brother in Christ.
There are many things in the Bible we will never understand. Men that studied for years will never understand all of the Bible, but our focus should be if Jesus is in our heart and soul and to spread the Good News of Jesus.
Jesus loves you!!
My heart brakes because you do not believe in Jesus, the One that loved you so much He died for you and me on the cross, taking our sins away.
My prayer is that you will fall on your knees andcry out to Jesus the precious One that died for you and me. If you ask He will hear.
You have a responsibility to bring up your precious little children to know about the Lord and lead your wife and family to walk the path of Jesus.
I will pray for you and pray that someday I can call you a brother in Christ.
Jesus loves you!!
Please spare me all this bullshit.
This is the kind of stuff I absolutely can not stand. I made a post on my blog addressing a particular article and instead of a comment or a response to said article I get someone trying to save my soul. Leave my soul alone I like it the way it is.
Now, even though your comment was not really in response to my post I will still comment on your comment. I couldn't help but notice that you "found" god when you were low and needed him. This just goes farther to prove my point that most people find god simply because they are not strong enough to deal with something on their own and need/want someone or something to help them. Or they find god because that is simply what they have been told their whole life.
Also, you say god got you that job at the prison. What a delightfully good chap that god of yours is, he must have really hated the other 96 women that he didn't give that job to, they must have been whores or something. Sorry, I know that was mean of me, but remember you fired first. Why does it have to be god, isn't more likely that your skills and a great interview got you that job, do you have a hard time believing you were better qualified than the other applicants. In that case couldn't luck have played a role, or maybe once you talked about your situation of having three kids to raise the hirer for that prison decided to do you a kindness. It seems to me that only an irresponsible god would put someone without any skills to work guarding the most dangerous people in our society. Sorry, again if that offended you.
Leave my family out of this!!!
That goes not just for you anyomous but for all you christians. This is a problem that is really starting to irk me. My children are being taught about god at day care and at our supposedly secular public schools. I was at a school function a few months ago and was mortified when they asked us to stand for prayer. A few weeks after that Katelynn said a preacher came to their class to talk to them about god. I don't go up to your children and tell them there is no god, so do me a favor and don't come to mine and tell them there is. I will talk to them about religion, so don't trouble yourself about their souls, but I would prefer it to be on my terms and without alot of preconceived superstitions in their heads. Children as young as mine can't possibly understand the implications of what you tell them about the existance or non-exsitance of an all-powerful being, for god's sake my kids still believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy. How I raise my children is no concern of yours, one day they will be out on their own and can make their own mind up. I know people like you probably discourage thinking on your own, but I think I will let my children think for themselves and will always support whatever decision they make. Besides, if I am going to hell like you said maybe I would like the company of my family with me.
Look, I am glad you have your imaginary friend to play with and keep you from stepping in any potholes, but I have outgrown talking to myself. And I don't need a crutch to get me through life, I am perfectly willing to step up to the plate and take responsibility for my screw ups and to pat myself on the back when I do something good.
Yes, I am interested in religion and I will probably always be, but I am not looking for salvation and would appreciate it if you keep that part of it to yourself. I won't piss on your faith if you don't piss on my lack of faith. I will believe in a god when he/she/it gives me reason to, but not because anyone tells me to. I am through with that part of my life, I don't appreciate anyone telling me what I should think, feel, say, or do. I also don't appreciate being condemned for my views. I really don't appreciate being told how to raise my kids. And my best hope for you is that I can one day count on you to not see the light anymore and join me as an atheist.
No One loves you!!
Brandon, I just wanted to say that person that you just told off or cussed out was my mother. Her name is Juneau Rollins Mcgee and she raised my two brothers and I. She does not know how to use the blog stuff and i don't think she meant to be hidden but I hope that through all that stuff you said you know that my mom is only speaking out of her life. Just know that as a believer in a Savior, she is simply trying to help in the way she and I know to be true. But know that I hope that even if you continue to choose this type of mentality you can learn to speak in a more mature manner.
Cynical Optimist wrote, "It seems to me that only an irresponsible god would put someone without any skills to work guarding the most dangerous people in our society."
Would an "irresponsible god" put someone without any skills working as a secretary at a prison?
I will apoligize for the strong nature of my response and in the spirit of peace and harmony I will delete if anyone wants me to. I wouldn't have went off quite so loudly but when my kids and family got drug into the mix I became furious.
Why is it that if you tell someone you don't like pizza, pizzalovers don't bother you with comments, phone calls, emails, or interventions to try and get you to eat pizza. But let someone say they don't like or believe in god.
jason hughes wrote, Would an "irresponsible god" put someone without any skills working as a secretary at a prison?
Sorry, didn't know her position, prison made me think guard.
And Jessica, if I had known it was your mother I wouldn't have went off like that. I just thought it was a random christian trying yet again to save me from being happy. Also, I thought the anonymous was from someone spinelss, never occurred to me that it might be from someone who just wasn't familiar with blogging. I am sorry.
No need to delete.
"Why is it that if you tell someone you don't like pizza, pizzalovers don't bother you with comments, phone calls, emails, or interventions to try and get you to eat pizza. But let someone say they don't like or believe in god."
Not many believe that eternal life or eternal death depend on whether one likes or disdains pizza. Atheists are compelled to ridicule Christians and God just like Christians are compelled to try to save the souls of atheists. Now, there are probably some health gurus (ones who have placed health as the primary goal and devotion in life) who would send us all emails and phone calls to try to get us to live healthier. They would probably ridicule us for our eating habits and talk about how stupid we are for eating the way that we do. Pizza could kill us you know.
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